Why pick apart the psychology of a work of fiction? They wanted to start a conversation about mental health, so let's have that conversation.
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13 Reasons Why I HATE 13 Reasons Why (Season 2) - I Hate Everything - https://youtu.be/faFQ0JvK5TA
[Lethality of Methods]
[Selena Gomes "So real and gritty" Response]
[Suicide Contagion for Celebrities]
[Suicide Contagion 65%]
Cerel, J., Venne, J., Moore, M., Maple, M., Flaherty, C., & Brown, M. (2015). Veteran exposure to suicide: Prevalence and correlates. Journal of Affective Disorders, 179, 82-87.
[Veteran Suicide Contagion four times more likely than Civilians]
Wilkinson, P., Kelvin, R., Roberts, C., Dubicka, B., & Goodyer, I. (2011). Clinical and Psychosocial Predictors of Suicide Attempts and Nonsuicidal Self-Injury in the Adolescent Depression Antidepressants and Psychotherapy Trial (ADAPT). The American Journal of Psychiatry. doi:https://doi.org/10.1176/appi.ajp.2010.10050718
[NSSI and Suicide]
Video Credits -
13 Reasons Why - Netflix (2017-2018)
Dumb**s on S****a Jumps Out Window - https://youtu.be/_O17HBMGlWc
J*** in my Pants - The Lonely Island - https://youtu.be/VLnWf1sQkjY
The Da Vinci Code (2006)
Fight Club (1999)
Photo Credits -
Conditioning Cartoons and Hippocampus by PoetheWonderCat
Music Credits -
"Furious Freak" and "Inspired" by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
"Somebody's Watching Me" - Misto & Pizzi
"Smooth Criminal" - Michael Jackson
Intro and Channel Art by PoetheWonderCat
Hashtags: #13ReasonsWhy #psychology #mentalhealth #13ReasonsWhy2 #hannahbaker #netflix #mentalillness #depression #anxiety #bipolar #awareness #mentalhealthawareness #mentalhealthissues #stress
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Its just her Stand ability at work. Name: Hannah
Stand: Somebody's Watching Me
Ability: Auditory and visual illusions caused through guilt she can also become ethereal and astral project herself to people.
I agree with u as someone who suffer from schizophrenia, bipolar/ bipolar depression, I self harm and have had multiple suicide attempts in the past the show aggravates me. I also happen to be a part of the 5% of children who are diagnosed before the age of 18 I was diagnosed at age 7 I am currently 20.
I have some criticism about this video ( is just constructive and based on my knowledege of the theme so if i get something wrong i would be actually happy to learn).
First, a very special characteristic of allucinations in a mental disorder is the capacity to aknowledge of what is real and what is not. Through the series Clay knows Hannah isn't there, which a person with schetzophrenia wouldn't be able to comprehend. I think is more related to psychosis. Between the symptoms are sleeping problems, radical change of emotions and, in some cases, allucinations. Also, the causes of these are more posible than a having schetzophrenia, like PTSD, depression or inmense grief without proper treatment. ( Also, shrooms and acid give phsycosis that can develop to other mental issues)
Second, i dont think Sky has BPS since she doesn't use manipulation to the extreme ( for what we have been shown), has no narcissistic characteristics and has real feelings for Clay, which is rare in patients with BPS.
Appart from that, im on board with almost everything you say. I enjoyed the video. Hope for your awnser.
They want you to take it seriously and start a conversation, because that would increase viewership and revenue. Not because it's true or will help mental illness in any way. TV is all about the bottom line. Just another example of "shock" masquerading as "truth" for money.
1) the images- there are other things that causes those imagines. Other than schizophrenia.
2) the fact that clay and Tyler react different sexual experiences isn’t bad. They are 2 different people, why would they react the same sexually.
3) borderline and bipolar are often misdiagnosed with each other.
4). Alex’s suicides is explained it is very common when someone who tries to shoot themself to flinch at the last second (the reflex part of your brain kicks in) and only graze themself or only shoot a small portion of the head.
5). It is very common for people who suffer traumatic brain injuries to not remember the accident and the days leading up to the accident. I will agree that a month is a little stretched, but things are often stretched for tv.
6) do you get extra money from your sponsors for finding a corny way to include them into the story after they had already been mentioned?
You seem like a very knowledgeable young man, when it comes to book knowledge, I’m just not sure how much life knowledge you have. By life knowledge i mean you need to go out and actually be with and talk to people with mental illness and TBI to really understand it.
So as someone who actually has hallucinations, they aren't always scary, and you can learn to tell that you're hallucinating but still be hallucinating. And children have developed schizophrenia or other disorders that come with psychosis (yeah that's another thing, schizophrenia isn't the only disorder that causes hallucinations) as young as 6 years old. Also yeah I have both bipolar and bpd and I thought skye actually showed more signs of bpd than bipolar, but I can see how she could have either one or both.
Just wondering, how did you feel about the recent Netflix adaptation of The Haunting Of Hill House?
It's really not much like the book, but it kinda gets into the aspects of depression and mental health issues on various fronts, particularly dealing with loss and such.
Also....it's awful, but a gun suicide attempt that *doesn't* work usually leaves a really horrific situation- you're very likely to be paralyzed, blinded, vegatative, ect.
Pretty shitty message Hollywood, thanks.
Its just her Stand ability at work. Name: Hannah
Stand: Somebody's Watching Me
Ability: Auditory and visual illusions caused through guilt she can also become ethereal and astral project herself to people who listened to her on recordings.
THANK YOU for adding the third phrase (freeze) to the oft mentioned fight or flight......a lot of people genuinely can't wrap their mind around the concept of it happening/being real. I work in inpatient psych care, unfortunately patients getting physically violent is pretty regular (because of our specific patient population, obv most people with psych issues are normal adults and don't lash out that way) and every single time we have a new employee we warn them that when a fight breaks out or somone becomes violent they WILL freeze, and to be prepared for it. Not a single one thinks that will happen to them, and sure enough you'll end up getting punched in the head a bunch while they stare at you, frozen in shock, radio in hand, NOT calling for help lol. It happens about 80% of the time with new people in that situation...and *still* even those with degrees in psych think it won't happen to them!
* IT IS SO DAMN COMMON PLEASE UNDERSTAND GENERAL PUBLIC *
What bothers me most is I see that disbelief mostly when sexual assault comes up, and no one will believe that the person froze and actually *could not* move (ie "why didn't you do anything, "if that was me I would have done this", "you can always leave a room or yell", "no one was actually holding you there" ect.)
It's called "Tonic Immobility" and it's a very real and relatively common physical response to that situation. This is different than "I was scared", this is more like "I went totally rigid like some kind of seizure and couldn't even blink".
The young adult daughter of the pastor of the church I went to as a kid, had a very traumatic brain injury in a car accident, and yeah, it wasn't pretty. Her memory was badly affected and she couldn't remember a lot of her past life. She recognised me and my brother, but then she had no idea most other people were that she'd known for years. It was like winning the lottery, her remembering who we were. I think even harder for the family, she really struggled to make new memories, so she would constantly forget what she had done the day before. The brain injury affected her profoundly in other ways too. She had gone from being an outgoing, intelligent young woman, to a sweet child-like girl. She also struggled to speak. And the rehabilitation for her was long and going to be gruelling. She would have a profound disability for the rest of her life. I know another girl whose mother has recently had a traumatic brain injury and she also is going through a gruelling rehabilitation process. Both of them were initially set to die, but miracuously survived.
The depiction here however sounds like a complete joke.
For those of you getting triggered over the phrase “attention seeking”, you’re focusing too much on the wording than what was said. He didn’t say that all people who cut are seeking attention, but cutting for attention does exist. Those who cut for attention give those who cut for the release a “bad name”. Meaning, they make it harder for those who actually need help, versus someone who just wants you to brown nose them. I’ve seen and experienced people do this when I was in Middle school. The people who didn’t tell you about it, but you just happened to catch a glimpse of what was underneath the sleeves of a jacket in spring in Florida weren’t cutting to get attention. Those who flaunted their “marks” (that hardly broke skin because they were more like scratches and possibly showing them off the next day), purposely shoving their arms in people’s faces, were seeking attention. Does it mean they don’t need help? No, but they’re not cutting to endanger their life, because they don’t like hurting themselves. They don’t want to die, they just love the result “cutting” gets them, which could lead to more risky behavior but often doesn’t because they don’t like pain. People who cut for the release will cut more often, go deeper, make longer cuts because they get used to the pain, so their body doesn’t set off the chemicals which numb the pain. So, they seek the euphoric release, which could then lead to an attempt on their life if they cut too much. I hate people who cut for attention, because they have every reason to express themselves or talk about the issue, but they choose not to. Whereas, some people aren’t in positions to openly complain about the issues that are going on in their life, so they bottle it up and silently slit their wrists in hopes of a better tomorrow. Truly, makes me sick.
Anecdotal, but my uncle got knocked out on the football field a month into college and forgot everyone he'd met, everything he'd learned, etc.
It is definitely possible, but VERY plot convenient, I'll admit that.
I thinks it’s brief psychosis since she does go away and seems to be stress induced. Even if that was so, the depiction is still inaccurate. Hallucinations don’t tend to admit they’re only in your head and are often extremely bizarre.
I read the book when I was in middle school, it actually really helped 14 year old me and the book version at least taught me that people would be harmed by my suicide no matter how deep the connection was to me to them, they would most likely at least miss me.
I don't know about the show version because I choose not to watch it due to worry that it will ruin my good memories of the book.
One of my favorite parts of the book was always Clay describing how the girl acted around him and others, and how much he enjoyed his short time with her despite being paired up by a silly Valentine's day poll
The worst with this show is 1. it presents itself as something that prevent suicide, and maybe it works for some, but for what I see in that comment section and my own experience, it does the contrary.
2. It's enjoyable to watch. At least for me. I watched the first 8 episodes in a row just because I wanted to know what was on Clay's tape, and I only stop because I didn't wanted to finish the show in one day. I felt so depressed after that; but I still liked the character and some things in the story (not everything). And with the success of the show, I think I'm not the only one who like it. And I think that's horrible that something who can be so harmful to people enjoy them.
And for the people who says that you don't commit suicide just because of a TB show, I want to say : that's not only the TV show. But what you see influence you, everytime. It may not give suicidal thoughts, but if you already have them, it can increase them.
i haven't seen this show only because of reviewers warning people not to watch it if you're depressed.
and from what i've heard, i'm glad i haven't. i'd be in a much worse place than i was, and am, in.
on the cutting thing, yeah, it does lead to suicide attempts.
PLEASE DON'T WATCH THIS SHOW
Thank you so much. I've dealt with severe depression, have friends with Bipolar, and know others with self harming tendencies. 13 reasons why always felt just WRONG to call an accurate portrayal of mental illness. Now i have a great resource to show others.
To be honest, I have to disagree with the cutting/suicide scene that was included. I thought that was actually kind of good to be included. Of course it may be triggering, which I was grateful for the warnings for, but I feel like people that don't go through mental health issues or don't think they're real, have never seen or felt how real it is. So for the show to show the scene in a "in your face" way, it helped people see the reality of it. It's not "beautifully broken" or whatever tumblr shit people call it. It's horrifying, and shocking, and a mix of emotions. It reminded me of how in Skins, they showed when Effy and Cassie tried to commit suicide as well. But that's just my two cents.
I'm a bit disappointed that there wasn't more criticism of the entire premise of the first season. I have never met a person with SI who would have the emotional energy or motivation to do something so elaborate and intricate as far as creating a very complex plan, finding cassette tapes in this day in age, creating a whole map, narrate something for 13 hours, and have a fail-safe to make sure the plan is followed through. Although someone might fantasize about vengeance by suicide, or think "they will all be sorry after I do it"...but that is far different than actually putting that much work into it. Certainly trauma can be a reason for an attempt, depression can be, or being in a negative situation where there seems no way out of it can all lead someone to want to kill themselves. But in all cases...usually the common denominator is feelings of helplessness and hopelessness. When a plan to commit suicide is put in place...usually the plan is limited to where, when, and by what means. Most people who commit suicide would feel too helpless and too emotionally drained to do what this girl did. Also, most people realize that there are better ways to exact revenge than killing themselves, as it hurts them more than the other person. People commit suicide because they see no other option.
I live in Australia now, but went to school in California. The Aussies who watched 13 Reasons Why asked me if high school was like that. It definitely was not. No one wore letterman jackets, people had friends in every clique, and it was pretty ordinary.
Do you have any works of fiction that you feel handle it well? I have a work of fiction that I believe deals with the mental issues well and so do many of the people who have both read the book and suffer from it but before I introduce said book to you I want your opinion.
Self harm isn’t always for attention. I self harm during panic attacks and it’s almost involuntary. It’s basically trying desperately to feel anything other than panic. It’s kinda hard to explain. And also cutting isn’t the only form of self harm.
+Princess Bean I totally agree, (personal experience), people who get "caught" self harming get a lot of unwanted attention and pity, and that can be sometimes harmful. People need to know a bit in general about mental illness and know how to, at least not make them feel guilty or something.
isaac ezequias there’s a huge stigma around self harm and most people think self harm is just cutting and just for attention. He literally said “self harm aka cutting” when cutting isn’t the only form of self harm
It's not uncommon to hallucinate after trauma. You may see, hear, or even interact with someone who isn’t there. I don't have schizophrenia, but have experienced this and was told by a few professionals that it’s normal and doesn't mean you have scizophrenia. Just a trauma thing some people experience. You may also have flashbacks of the person. It’s based on the fear of the loss, you re-experience the loss over and over when you hallucinate them and it’s terrifying/devastating, especially when you know it isn’t real and it interferes with your day-to-day activities or other relationships.
That said, I’ve never seen this show.
I did recently have a month long hospital visit and I forgot most things from around that time. I did forget my Facebook password, actually. Lol. But I remembered most people and things, just some stuff, including how to do some things was just lost and I had to relearn. I was dating someone I did completely forget about, though.
The whole "13 tapes" thing along with all the mental health stuff and just the atmosphere of it seems like it would fit better in a edith finch style walking stimulator than a long form tv show.
Am i the only one who thinks that? Yes? Ok.
I didnt want to watch this show becuase i live this every day and If it is normal People who made IT IT is a lol chance for tham to know shit but... Thats kind of our foult We sould speak out but most of us dont have the motivation or energy
I know a guy who shot himself in the head and lived. He now experiences some pretty substantial weakness on one side of his body and one of his eyes is also damaged. It does happen. He doesn't have any visible scars or disfigurement other than muscle wasting on the weak side after decades have passed since the event.
Hm you had me up until the "Self Harm is an attention seeking behavior" revealing that you self harm is embarrassing and shameful and freaks the others around you and you'll probably not get the "attention" you want. A lot of ppl who self harm dont reveal it or want to talk about it because its so shameful.
My best Friend has schizophrenia and he can tell when he's hallucinating, and he can also tell when the voices are just in his head. He does also have long term hallucinations, one example is every time he looks in his rear view mirror at night, he will see a mostly decomposed "skeleton man," as we call him. Everybody experiences schizophrenia differently, which is why its one of the hardest illnesses to be counciled and medicated for.
I just started this video but I just felt like i had to say. My mother was in the airforce and as far as I know, she was the only one of the parents on my community. We lived about 20 mins from the city, where the base was, so she would commute every day. If her coworkers had kids, most of them went to school in teh city
just saying. It's not unsually and probably not something to nitpick about -shrug-
I think hallucinations of the dead can occur in some forms of complex grief. I'm not sure how they present, however. With Skye, I don't like how her mental health issues, especially cutting, is very much a negative stereotype of Goths that is often used against us - the idea that we are all mentally unstable attention seekers and have a cutting problem (which is based in a pretty judgemental attitude to mental health, too). Did they have to make Skye a Goth? I also feel like the show doesn't address that Hannah did what she did because she was mentally ill, probably long before the trauma of the sexual assaults - it seems to justify her suicide as revenge idea, and it also makes it seem like her suicide was mostly about other people. I think this has two problems; it could encourage people with disorders such as Borderline Personality Disorder to feel like suicide as a revenge mechanism is a good idea, and it could be deeply troubling for people who have lost a loved one to suicide, making them feel guilty over that death when most suicides suffered from Depression and did it to escape a personal pain, and one that even a good support network of excellent friends might not have saved them from.
FUCKING SPREAD THE WORD. SO MUCH ABOUT THIS SHOW ON MENTAL HEALTH IS NOT SOMETHING UNEDUCATED PEOPLE SHOULD TURN TO FOR INFORMATION 👏
edit: honestly people who are educated with and/or even EXPERIENCE mental health issues shouldn't watch a show that glorifies unhealthy harmful behaviors and romanticizes death, causing pain, and negativity. I myself am pretty reckless and fragile in my state of mind and taking care of myself, and I haven't touched this show because I know I'm prone to being influenced by negative stuff like this (plus knowing how absolutely incorrect half of it is would make the viewing experience infernal), and when I see family members and ppl around me enjoying such a flawed BAD portrayal of actual issues, I feel like we're all being cheated out of actual awareness and into this glamorized ideal of what death actually means. Idk stay woke and know your triggers
Wait, THAT'S how hallucinations work?! Because I think I might actually have that. It's not like anything super drastic or something, but sometimes when I'm in the bathroom or walking around the house at night I'll just get a feeling that something's watching me or I'll feel like there's a thing there that slips out of sight or something. Like I'll be able to visualize some form of monster or alien or something being right next to me but I'll be looking at the specific spot and I know there's nothing there.
It's super weird and it genuinely seems like a mild lesser version of how it's described. Like I know there's nothing there and everything's fine, but it just feels like there's a thing there and my mind kind-of tries to fill it in even though my eyes are specifically telling me that it's not true, if that makes sense. It used to really freak the heck out of me because my dad believes in aliens so I'd always be freaked out about if the feeling was from an alien or something, which really messed with me as a teenager and stuff, although I don't think it's super common for something like this to manifest that early.
also i agree about the depictions of extreme mental illness. its the whole reason i always assumed i wasnt bipolar. it wasnt until talking to real people that are bipolar, that i realized i was similar to them. and it goes for BPD too. even "professionals" told me that i couldnt have BPD because i wasnt "bad enough". i wasnt crazy enough or reckless enough ect. then i finally stopped even talking about it, until my psychiatrist told me that he suspected i had BPD. and of course he left before ever addressing that. but even professionals, have these ideas that you have to be this extreme, or fit into all these boxes, and its not like that at all.
Honestly as some who is Shizo and Bipolar and has Tactile hallucinations, I'm so glad that you brought those things out with detail and obviously knew what you were talking about. I'm so tired of seeing people who just randomly throw things around while trying to talk about shows and things.
+isaac ezequias nope. Cause i don't care if anyone knows. In fact i actively hide it. Sure i posted a YouTube comment, however do you know me? Can you affect me? Sure you could write back, however it's just a youtube comment. I don't wrote blogs or make videos. None of my friends or family know. Some strangers on the net know. Big deal.
ohh but i totally disagree with you on the cutting. its not always attention seeking. everytime i have ever self harmed (especially) cutting, i never wanted anyone to know about it. i went out of my way to hide it, and the only reason my mom ever found out about it was because i told her. and she still has no idea where it was that i was doing it. the one time she did notice a scar, i lied about it, and made sure to never do it in a visible place ever again. i never did it for attention. i did it for myself, because like sky said "its what you do instead of killing yourself". its about being overwhelmed with negative thoughts, and doing something that releases so of that built up "stress" for lack of a better word. for example if i felt a lot of frustration or hatred towards myself, and i cut myself i would feel better. like releasing pressure out of a balloon that is about to explode.
im only putting this out there because a lot of people that self harm feel this way. there are people who do it for attention, but i feel like the majority are doing it just for the relief, not because they want anyone to know about it and feel bad for them. i feel like its a really dumb misconception, but then again there are still those people that like to show off that they cut, because they get attention, so they just reinforce the misconception.
i agree with you about how they portrayed sky. being someone with BPD and possibly bipolar (undiagnosed, but working to get a new therapist. just bringing it up because im pretty sure i have it. it runs in my family and me and my bipolar sister talk about the stuff we feel and experience and its almost identical). anyway lost track. my point was that she reminded me so much of me i started to have flash backs. it felt like watching myself. only she was waayy more dramatic.
Whenever videos like this talk about schizophrenia it really freaks me out. That whisper of "Subscribe" actually jump scared me. It's the same with David Lynch films for me. They unnerve me in a way that has something to do with fear of going insane.
Antidepressants are medications that can help relieve symptoms of depression, social anxiety disorder, anxiety disorders, seasonal affective disorder, and dysthymia, or mild chronic depression, as well as other conditions.
They aim to correct chemical imbalances of neurotransmitters in the brain that are believed to be responsible for changes in mood and behavior.
Depression Medications (Antidepressants)
These are the most commonly prescribed type of antidepressant.
Serotonin and noradrenaline reuptake inhibitors (SNRIs) are used to treat major depression, mood disorders, and possibly but less commonly attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), anxiety disorders, menopausal symptoms, fibromyalgia, and chronic neuropathic pain.
SNRIs raise levels of serotonin and norepinephrine, two neurotransmitters in the brain that play a key role in stabilizing mood.
Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) are the most commonly prescribed antidepressants. They are effective in treating depression, and they have fewer side effects than the other antidepressants.
SSRIs block the reuptake, or absorption, of serotonin in the brain. This makes it easier for the brain cells to receive and send messages, resulting in better and more stable moods.
They are called "selective" because they mainly seem to affect serotonin, and not the other neurotransmitters.