522 randomized controlled trials involving 21 antidepressants and 116,477 people were analyzed. It appears the most effective antidepressants (at a duration of 8 weeks) include amitriptyline, escitalopram, mirtazapine, paroxetine, and venlafaxine.
While reboxetine and trazodone had notably lower efficacy ratings. Some of the most effective drugs had lower tolerability scores, however, indicating they may have a greater side effect burden.
The antidepressant literature shows signs of potential bias, so the results have to be considered with that in mind.
More detailed overview: https://thedrugclassroom.com/overview-least-effective-antidepressants/
Reddit discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDrugClassroom/comments/8cg969/overview_the_most_and_least_effective/
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Since my introduction, I have experimented with various combinations and some 300+ people have mirrored my fringe science. It seems that in the vast majority of individuals, moclobemide alone is far, FAR, FAAAAAAAR more effective than all the drugs mentioned. Not a SINGLE person has reported any serious side effect, only transient ones that could not have been attributed to anything specific. Iirc, Some older studies mentioned an efficacy around 67%, compared to many ssris/tricyclics which have approx 33% efficacy according to the same study (placebo was 20-25%... not a big improvement over sugar pills)
Please note: Other research comparing moclobemide is HIGHLY biased against moclobemide because it's patent is expired as its pretty old, and works insanely well with no side effects that might require another prescription. I pay 3$ (cad= 2$ american) monthly for it generic.... It becomes evident when 300+ people have tried it (within my group) and pretty much not a single person reported any side effect worse than a headache or mild initial sleeplessness, almost everyone who tried it said it helped the first day, making it a rapid acting antidepressant at that.
Moreover, it's mechanism, reversible MAO-A inhibition, is something we humans are adapted for and crave. All spices and herbs practically have at least some MAO inhibitory effects, and it is significant. Tea, coffee, chocolate, black pepper, hot peppers, mustard, alcohol metabolites (MAO-B mainly but still), tobacco (explains the difference in effect of pure nicotine vaped vs unprocessed tobacco leaf smoked), and many, many more. Avoiding MAO inhibitors would be harder than a fruitarian diet, since there are some MAO inhibitor fruit even! Might be easier to evolve photosynthesis instead...
Moclobemide has been shown to retain its effectiveness over a multi-year period, as well as working when you stop and start again years later. It's favored in the elderly for lack of organ toxicity, specifically on the heart, unlike all other antidepressants, as well as no anticholinergic activity, a common feature of the unselective alternatives. Even in gross overdose, there is relatively low danger. And by relatively low I mean there are instances where they just hook you up to saline and watch you, no stomach pumping. Very likely to be the least toxic antidepressant on the market. I just realized what I wrote is pretty huge so I'm gonna stop here, but if you're interested just shoot me a message. I will literally bore you from excess material you could make videos on thanks to my highly fringe science and probably never done before shenanigans
P.S. I see a few comments praising ketamine as the next miracle antidepressant. No, the ideal antidepressants exist already, drug companies will just prevent them from becoming mainstream. The drug companies want you on ketamine because although long lasting, chances are you'll come back every so often for a redose. The only nmda antagonists you need are agmatine, magnesium, and various supplements/phytochemicals, and they do work for depression believe it or not
After going through 4 different antidepressants that just made me feel awful (mirtazapine included) I was pretty much ready to give up on the idea of them all together. Recently, on the 5th try I thought maybe an SNRI might work better so went on venlafaxine 37.5mg prolonged release. And I must say, I’ve not experienced a single side effect and feel better than I have done in a while. Antidepressants do get a bad rap but thinking they’re going to mess you up will only limit your success. Everyone talks about the placebo effect but never the nocebo.
Amitriptyline, according to this, worked the best. It is one of the oldest antidepressants on the list. Which contradicts what was said here. I've been taking Mirtazepine (which had the second best score) for years now. Sure, it worked fantastically for the first 2weeks. After a few months it was barely noticeable. Now I'm worse on it than I was before i starting taking It!! But the withdrawal is so bad, that I cannot get off It! Ive come off a ten year heroin habbit, and subsequently a 7 year methadone habbit. But I can't get off Mirtazepine!!!
Two points. One, older does not mean worse in terms of efficacy, many of the newer drugs have been released to improve the side effect profile more than the efficacy of the drug. Two, a review like this is *not* definitive or final, the best drug for an individual will still vary, this just gives a general outline of the trends seen across antidepressants.
The biochemical imbalance has never been scientificallyproven,the brain is a very complex organ and science hasn't even begun to tap into mood disorders beyond a reasonable doubt only theories but drug companies are making billions experimenting,overprescribing and in most cases making people worse not better.Anti depressants can also worsen depression and cause suicide,psychotic episodes,anxiety and panic attacks among many other things. Big pharma is full of lies and coverups and bogus studies. The gut/brain correlation is not addressed and the fact there are more Neuro chemicals in the stomach than the brain is hardly addressed that's why people are safely,effectively and permanently treated with the correct diet that's what happened with me after IDIOT pill pushers aka do doctors almost killed me with these experimental neuro toxins.Stop lying to people that these drugs are a cure at best they are a temporary band aid at worst they will make you much sicker with months and even years in some cases of debilitating withdrawal symptoms oh not to mention they have been linked to increased risk of dementia and even cancer. I urge people to try a keto diet before playing Russian roulette with these dangerous chemicals.
It’s difficult to prove the theory as you cannot take brain samples from living people, but we do have a good amount of human and animal research implicating neurotransmitter differences. It also simply makes sense given the brain is the source of mood disorders and the efficacy of certain drugs is another sign of neurotransmitter involvement.
i tried venlafaxyne but it made me unbearably anxious. Now my docter gave me escitalopram, i'm starting today but i keep second guessing the whole medication thing. I would like to just get better on my own strengt but i'm not sure if i can
By the way, forgive me if there's condescending tone, when I said "you" i meant in general sense, not you personally, but the readers. My point was to give you hope that this medication failing is not an indication of your success rate to get better. It actually does not work for more than 50% of people that try it.
And no, you will not have to take the medication that works for you for the rest of your life. After I exctracted all I can get out of the paxil, i stopped taking it and no, panic attacks did not return. Its true that the first week anxiety can worsen, but that's just withdrawal symptom, not your actual natural levels of anxiety. More than 50% people try at least 2 or 3 medications before getting an improvement. Of those people, only 50% get a SIGNIFICANT improvement and tolerability. Of those only 10-20% people have to take the medication for decades or rest of life. Most people do stop the med after getting better and the disorder does NOT come back and even if it does, the severity is 1/10th of what it used to be before getting help
And for me it was the medication that let me break out of panic attacks and agoraphobia. It was the only time I could actually socialize and push myself out of comfort zone as well as do things that i never believed i will be able to do. My point is just to piggyback the reality how different responses are to the exact same medication. Paxil killed anxiety so depression went away too because stress worsens it. Even though it had emotion numbing effect that would worsen depression for some, the anxiolytic effect made me able to do many things that all summed up completely negate the minimal emotion numbing of paxil (even tho its one of the most numbing ones). If you took it and expected your mental issues to resolve on their own then no surprise. Even if it was that bad for you, as a rational adult you have to choose, what is more bearable the emotion numbing but the ability to do everything you were never able to due to anxiety or to NOT have the emotion numbing sideeffect, but duty to fight against your anxiety disorder. What is worse, the side effect that can be negated somewhat or the fact that you are not improving, that nothing is changing and you are not getting better, and it will be decades of exact same suffering until MAYBE it MIGHT get a bit better.? You know what was more terrifying than panic attacks and agoraphobia? The thought of staying THE SAME, the thought that I will not be normal, that this is the very peak and all there is to my fragile life - THAT is more terrifying than panic attacks themselves and the emotional numbing sideffect. You just keep getting more and more frustrated trying things (wrongly) and coming to conclusion "ive tried everything, its hopeless". When others preached to me all that "accepting yourself and your panic attacks" it made me even more afraid, because the mere fact of having to accept myself means I will never feel normal.
And I am so thankful I did NOT give in to the acceptance bullshit. Because that's easy, right? You don't have to fight or do anything, you just accept your miserable life and fantasize of how amazing it would be to feel normal just for a day. I am glad I did not buy into this bs, because that fantasy was not a fantasy at all, it was actually ATTAINABLE and yes, most of panic attack/social anxiety disorder sufferrers CAN become normal and even better at some things compared to "normal" people. Its true, good portion of them are not going to attain 100% of normal life, but even just 50% is amazing compared to.. accepting the misery and killing any hope you had hidden in you. Its one thing to be in such misery of having to accept and fantasize just being normal, it's completely other thing when that fantasy is actually attainable and the fight isn't that hard but deluding oneself that this is the best you will ever get, that's what you are and you should be happy you dont have cancer. That is even worse than any panic attack, that's worse than ACTUALLY trying everything, failing and coming to conclusion of having to accept the panic disorder, because at least you KNOW there's something not right if all the things that work for most people did not for you, at least you know you TRIED.
Paxil is the most helpful for agoraphobia and/or panic attacks, together with severe social anxiety. Something like prozac is one of the most mild and best for depression and first-timers, because it can be combined with mirtazapine (for anxiety) or bupropion (stimulating and depression-specific). So the reason paxil has some emotion numbing effect is exactly why its the most effective for panic attacks and other severe-fear-based types of disorders. That emotion numbing and drowsiness can be negated with stimulant bupropion. On its own its mild and can increase anxiety but with paxil it stimulates without anxiety.
Your options are Paxil(1st) , find your perfect dosage where it kills anxiety without killing energy and motivation, then if helps anxiety but does not or worsens your depression and you want to add something, you have an option to add on top of it something like bupropion which stimulates.
If you really don't like paxil, your option is bupropion(stimulating) + mirtazapine (sedating). On their own both of these are mild, but together they add up to more than what typical antidepressant like SSRI would give. I dont want to confuse you, but the reason I would suggest these two opposites, is because of the secondary effects they have. Bupropion increases norephinephrine and very mildly dopamine(this one is superior to serotonin for motivation and mood). Now since the dopamine increase is very mild, mirtazapine comes to help here. While it's sedating (taken before sleep, kills racing thoughts/insomnia but most importantly restores your sleep cycle), it has serotonin increasing effect as well as mild dopamine increasing, which is too mild on its own, but since bupropion = norepinephrine+dopamine(mildly) the mirtazapine increases serotonin so you have the most important trio of neurotransmitters here. ALSO, mirtazapine increases dopamine which is mild but together with bupropion adds up to significant. Since bupropion stimulates and would cause insomnia for some, the mirtazapines sleep inducing effects negates the negative side of bupropion. These two complement each other amazingly.
Prozac is mild serotonin increaser, but it has also mild dopamine increasing effect (5HT2C receptor inhibits dopamine, but prozac inhibits this receptor which leads to dopamine increase). Mirtazapines dopamine increasing effect is exactly the same, it inhibits the 5HT2C receptor, while bupropion directly affects dopamine release. This adds up to a balanced increase of all three (serotonin+norepinephrine+dopamine). Prozac is mild and doesn't really lift mood, but bupropion does, while mirtazapine has both of these - reduces anxiety and increases mood. On their own they are weak and is the reason why most people trying everything and don't get improvement. But not many try a good combo. If you have 2 or 3 MILD/weak medications they add up to what one STRONG antidepressant would do.
So, first option - Paxil first, bupropion second, mirtazapine third(third might not be needed).
Second option - Prozac first, mirtazapine second, bupropion third.
Alternative - Tianeptine helps both anxiety and depression, and it does so by glutamate and dopamine circuits, but there's one problem. It's addictive, at higher doses it begins to have opioid agonist properties and potentiates opioids as well as other drugs. However depression and severe panic attacks are much more harmful and life damaging than even the worst case of tianeptine abuse. Depression kills people, while with tianeptine you will quickly learn to respect it and not play with fire.
Phenibut, pregabalin and gabapentin as well as baclofen are good for those that have no chance to get any medication prescribed but NEED to get your act together. These are not antidepressants, but anxiety killing meds. At higher doses they do have addicting euphoria, but I won't teach you how to be rational adult and realize the potential to get your life back it has, and you will lose this potential by abusing. But even in case of abuse - depression, agoraphobia and isolation are much more deadly than any kind of abuse of these meds.
"When placed in the proper context, the following basic chemical properties2–15 explain the failure of 5-HTP to achieve consistent results. The following scientific facts are generally accepted without dispute:
In central nervous system disease states associated with synaptic serotonin dysfunction, synaptic serotonin levels in the brain must be increased to induce optimal outcomes.
Serotonin does not cross the blood–brain barrier.
5-HTP freely crosses the blood–brain barrier.
5-HTP is freely converted to serotonin without biochemical feedback inhibition.
When infinitely high amounts of 5-HTP are administered, it is theoretically possible to achieve infinitely high levels of serotonin. One limiting factor is the availability of the enzyme L-aromatic amino acid decarboxylase (AAAD), which freely catalyzes the conversion of 5-HTP to serotonin."/
Source - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3415362/
NOTHING works for me! I've tried em ALL!!My BEST was WELLBUTRIN! Unfortuntely, it only lasted a couple months & so I went off of it.After awhile, I kept trying to take it again, but it NEVER had the SAME RESULTS! I'd NEVER felt SO NORMAL IN MY ADULT LIFE the FIRST time I took it! I was FINALLY like I was when I was younger & FINALLY like EVERYONE ELSE! I SO WISH I could find a drug to work as well, as drinking wine at night is becoming VERY, VERY OLD!
saffron blu alcohol was my answer for years,but started taking suboxone for order issues,obviously,and now I can't MAKE myself drink!! I stopped my antidepressants...my life has gone to shit!..Use to I could at least find SOME joy in getting drunk,even if it was temporary. .,but now that's gone.. :-(
Do anti-depressants do anything for Concentration Deficit Disorder? (A variation of Attention Deficit Disorder where you get 'mind fog' even though you know exactly what you should be doing and thereby you cannot start doing anything productive due to this mind-fog that just wastes your time). I'll research it right now but curious if other people have experience. I should really ask my clinical psych but it costs an arm and a leg every time I visit them.
The Ciprani et al. study has changed a lot of my practice. Of course meta-analyses are only as good as the quality of studies included but the results were really interesting. I was suprised about the efficacy of amitryptiline but very unsuprised by how poorly tolerated it was. I find myself prescribing more escitalopram now over lower ranking alternatives like fluoxetine (though of course individual results will always vary). Keep up the vids as they're really good! :)
Mirtazepine? I might as well have been taking pink microdot LSD. They even use that stuff as a short-term general anaesthetic for all sorts of medical procedures.
I know about every single medication you have on here.
The saying use to be, "Drugs are for people who can't handle reality." In today's sad, sick world, it should read, "Reality is for people who can't handle drugs."
You should do an episode on methadone. As a long term methadone maintenance patient the amount of misconceptions surrounding methadone is just absolutely ridiculous and really sad. You have caregivers enforcing ineffective dose caps, alcoholics anonymous and treatment centers claiming you are as good as using, patients claiming it rots your teeth, police officers arresting legitimate medical patients, insurance companies refusing to pay for it and centers refusing to take insurance, street users overdosing because they don't understand half life and time of onset, the public constantly shaming those in treatment, and don't even get me started on the absurdity of the government regulations and laws on methadone. The legal hoops patients and caregivers have to jump through to receive/provide methadone treatment is totally unique to methadone. Because of this methadone treatment is very difficult to find, afford, and recieve which is a true shame considering the current "opioid epidemic".
Edit: I kind of went on a rant here but this really needs to be addressed. Addiction treatment in this country is an absolute joke. None of it is science based, most if it is very heavily based around alcoholics anonymous, and the rate of relapse for treatment is often as high as 95%. If the rate of relapse is no better than placebo...then maybe...just maybe its because these treatments don't actually work. Meanwhile, the few treatments that are evidence based, and have been proven to work in controlled clinical studies, are incredibly difficult to access and don't accept insurance 90% of the time.
I think certain nootropics should replace ssri's, there's anecdotal evidence to suggest this, as well as my own experiences. I've seen more results on 3 days of noopept than 1 year of zoloft and mirtazipine, it just clears your mind and let's you focus on what you're doing without getting distracted, it helps you put emotions aside and just get on with it.
THE MARTYR Could you please answer to the following: Which nootropics are you talking about to be exact, which of these have you tried yourself and out of these which do you think work the best?
I've tried L-theanine, but haven't noticed anything significant. I almost feel like it made me more anxious but maybe I'm just being delusional here.
Mother of Dragons I know the feeling. I stopped citalopram for an out 4 or 6 months,then went on Welbutrin for over a year,stopped it,again for about 5 or 6 mths,started Zoloft,just like the rest,it seemed to work for a couple months,then NOTHING. Just last week my Dr prescribed me EFfexor,but I don't think I'm going to take it because of all rhe negative reviews I read about withdraw,and suicidal thoughts. Damned if you do...damned if you dont. I'm so sick of feeling sick,in my head..
Tony i think the same way you do, but iv been trying to find a way to get out of this depression, its been 3 years now since i quit citalopram and its just going downhill month by month, its cronic and not caused by anything so i guess i need to start with something
There's no denying that there's an associated risk of various side effects varying by dosage for almost every antidepressant. Its also a given that antidepressants should not be the first line treatment for anyone suffering from depression. However in those who do require pharmacological treatment, SSRIs are among the least harmful antidepressants currently on the market and pose a significantly lower risk of withdrawal symptoms and adverse side effects in comparison with older antidepressants such TCAs and MAOIs which often require very strict diets and are far less convenient for most people.
Unless you can provide us with an article showing a risk of fetal side effects from withdrawal from SSRI medications, your previous claim will be regarded as nothing more than fear mongering and unscientific hogwash. I've done plenty of research on SSRIs and other classes of antidepressants and would be more than willing to back up any claim or question with peer reviewed scientific articles so just let me know. Also if you're lying to strangers and spreading your pseudoscience to individuals who may be in medical need of such medications, you're in no position to call out on others who correct your false misinformation in an attempt for harm reduction and spreading of actual scientific evidence.
I started taking Trazodone at the age of 31 after trying about five different antidepressants and it's the only thing that worked for me. I don't think I was ever diagnosed with other major depression issues but I do experience low motivation and some anxiety so. Great information but yeah trazodone is what worked for me.
I tried numerous drugs throughout my spread of depression and I was shocked to see that Venlafaxine was one of the best drugs out there; I fucking hated being on it and it was pure hell to finally come off of it. Wellbutrin had to be a add-on to help me come off some of the horrible withdrawal symptoms I was having. Trazadone never really had an impact and it was given to help other antidepressants get a boost but after a while, I couldn't stand being on it either. I went cold for about a year, suffering horrendous phases of withdrawal and depression before I knew I had to be on something long-term to help me combat my condition. I went for broke and gave Fluoxetine (Prozac) a try and finally got to a better place in life. I would say that I'm at 80% improved but I would be shocked to hear if there was any drug that could bring someone back to 100%. It is tough! It is extremely tough to get over the hump into progress but fight it and it will be very worth it to see a better life in front of you. I'm no rep for pharmaceuticals and I will gladly help anyone who is having a difficult time in their depression or needs help to seek out a Dr. to begin their first steps. I went through hell and I want to be a guide for anyone wanting a better life and I believe everyone deserves a better life. Sometimes, even talking to someone who has been there can help and I am always keeping an ear open to anyone who needs to talk. I don't judge anyone and I'm a combat veteran, so if anyone really needs help, I will gratefully assist with my experiences. Don't wait until it's too late! Things can get better and they will get better if you just take the first steps.
Any opinion on tianeptine? It's not available as a AD in the USA but is widely used all over the world. It's structure reminds me of the more efficient ADs in the video and the effects so far (3x 12,5 mg a day, fixed, for every patient including myself) have been great. Structurally it's also related to benzodiazepines and is an atypical tricyclic antidepressant.
Another worthwhile set of videos might also be on the snri's ie venlafaxine and duloxetine. Drugs for which opinions differ greatly with some clinicians singing their praises and while others regard them as poisons so to speak...
Notable that they didn't include any of the MAOI's in the review. Arguably some of the most effective drugs for severe MDD yet virtually unknown substances in modern medical school training. Enjoyed your selegiline video, perhaps you could do some videos on e.g. moclobemide?
+The Senate It has extreme side effects to some, while extreme benefits for the depressed. Its more effective because it also increases dopamine, while SSRI's only serotonin, and SNRI's serotonin and noradrenaline. Dopaminergics nearly always cause moodlift, I mean, heroin's downstream effect is extreme increase in dopamine levels, however MAOI's are more effective because of the increase in serotonin, noradenaline and dopamine. That's what cocaine increases - its a triple reuptake inhibitor, increases levels of the three main neurochemicals. People like you choose the much more rarely effective SSRI's, only because it's much less effective and hence less frequence of severe side effects. However why isn't there an option for people whom MAOIs benefit greatly. It's abandoned because ssri's have less side effect complaints, and these hurt reputation of the drug very much. They chose ssri's because side effects are less severe and thus reports of it. However less people respond to it AT ALL also. When MAOI's cause interaction, you stop, but when it works, it works REALLY well, it absolutely crushes depression and the complaint of side effects is from people whose depression isnt severe enough for the benefits to outweigh the cost. Sorry, but id rather take the risk of maoi's, but have a hope of a medication that really works
True. MAOI's often work when many others fail or are treatment resistant. They are outdated and have a negative reputation. I don't think they're dangerous the way some think. MAOs are also effective in anxiety disorders OCD & bipolar depression. :)
Maoi’s are hardly the most effective and are far from unknown. They are attached to many dangers. They have severe interactions with other medications, whether that be over the counter or prescription, as well as foods. Yes, they do in fact interact negatively with certain foods.
Stay dafuq away from tianeptine sodium you can buy it online as a "nootropic" on sites like New mind and blue brain boost. Lately there has been a shortage of the "nootropic" and the price has sky rocketed it is a prescription only antidepressant medication in France but sold online in the US. It is said to have mu opioid effect. People have used it for heroin withdrawals, I urge you to not try this if you have an addictive personality. It will reel you in like a fish and not let go. The withdrawal of this "nootropic" is similar if not WORSE!!! than heroin. I would like to see you do a video on this please!!!!!.
662dodz that sounds horrible, I'm sorry all that happened to you. I hope you stay clean of tianeptine and find the right medication and therapy for your issues. Having a non-supportive or addicted partner can make it even worse, I hope it will turn out well for you! Be well
Sarah Mayer yeah i started taking it in 2015 when i came across it on ebay it stood out to me because it said it reduced anxiety and depression i remember the very first pill i took made me feel amazing. Over the past few years i have been addicted to it on and off . And it's availability is becoming scarce. I'll probably never take it again. I wish that i had more self control but certain situations and a crazy ex girlfriend make it hard
It's a shame it's not available as a legit medication in the US, the nootropic vendors put all kinds of shit in there and I've read of really bad batches. The reports on certains subreddits are frightening. As a user of legal tianeptine medication with a prescription and supervision in europe it helped me a ton. They use a fixed dose of 3x12,5 mg a day (tablets) - I was told increasing the dose doesn't do anything for depression and anxiety, similar to doses of tricyclic ADs. I can imagine that non-therapeutic doses above 3x12,5 mg get you high, hence the abuse potential, right?
I tried Amitryptiline for a few weeks at relatively small doses, starting at 10mg, then 25mg and maxed out at 50mg/day taken once before sleeping. The taste of this medication is horrid and it leaves a dry mouth and metallic feeling. It also makes one potentially gain weight.
I actually found it quite effective at helping me sleep and I think it improved my mood. However, if I missed a dose I would get very itchy and irritable. I tried to taper my use to get off this drug but I was always itchy... (I read many reviews online of this irritating side effect of itchiness). I was scared I could not get off the drug or would always have this itchy side effect. Then one day - the itchiness stopped. I still want to take amitryptiline as I think it was helpful but I am a little fearful to try it again.
So far I am surviving and coping without any medication.
It's a shame they didn't cover tianeptine. I think, tianeptine is one of the best mood-brighteners. Another meta-analysis found a trend that tianeptine was better than some. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15177089 Additionally, I'm not aware of any side effects. It's also considered a nootropic due to its cognitive restoration after stress.
lord thick nipples - "lol some anti depressants cause suicidal thoughts" That's true, well actually, no - it's misleading. All antidepressants can do that.
"I said some not all, while most of them are pretty effective or not, a select few cause bad reactions in some people"
Sooo how do you say this and make it jive with the jump to "it's counterproductive and all it does is give the drug companies more money"?
I'm curious. Genuinely. How does that make Pharma more money? And "some." The word 'some'. You've got some, which equates to money for Big Pharma somehow. Still not understanding how. Narcan for heroin overdoses? Drugs to make one vomit out a bottle of pills and vodka? A drug that goes back in time and makes the noose you made disappear? I feel dumb. Can't figure it out. You seem to backtrack with your second post too.
At first 'some' means something significant. Then, 'some' clearly is far away from 'most', according to you. The latter statement makes more sense according dictionaries and what not. "a select few" comes up as well. This is true. How many is "a select few"? One might be confused by your first post. One with mental illness? My god, just imagine THAT confusion. Your second post seems different, but you also leave room for what 'some' and thus 'a select few' mean. These are quantitative things here. Can you do define those? With numbers? Like... more or less accurate numbers, just sourced well. Doesn't have to be perfect. Just don't want to scare off those suffering from a possible solution, you know.
Btw: that's hella dope that cannabis and/or psychedelics work for you. Hope you stay well. They are now antidepressants too though, did you know that? "And honestly the best anti depressant (for me)..." - you. It's true, for you and many others. So these antidepressants would also cause suicidal thoughts in "a select few," right? Yay? Nay? If not, why is that so? Prove that they don't if you can. Very important info for the people to have. If you can't find the evidence, I understand. It's probably not available. So for all we know, weed and psychedelics may lead to far more suicidal ideation, attempts, and deaths. It's hard to know. But we do know it's very rare to experience this from SSRIs and other antidepressants. Can't make a judgement on weed and hallucinogens, but there are definitely a lot of people who use one or both who end their lives. Cause? Correlation?
Mayyyyybe you don't know what you're talking about - and are a great person - but from ignorance, perhaps you spread untruths and stigmas unknowingly that stop people from getting help? Does that seem possible? Not that You do it, but you and many many many others do it and a quick google search might make a mentally-ill person question these drugs because of this. That could lead to a lot of a different outcomes.
sarah mayer Agreed (I mean, confirmed. You're right). Also - I'd venture to guess - you know who commits suicide? People near the end of their rope. What do people put off trying (for a variety of reasons but most definitely misinformation when it comes to those aware of meds and can afford all the things needed to get them)? They put off trying antidepressants. So if they're near the end, and take a massive step to try something they were against or weren't open to before - and it doesn't work enough, quick enough, or at all, or just nothing with soft side-effects - well shit, go through a million other antidepressants to find the right one? And wait a month or two each time? Maybe a combo? Uhhhh nah, suicide makes more sense. Easily.
Correct me if I'm wrong since I've never truly been suicidal, but I feel this must be a factor. Or maybe it's not included with the data about suicidal ideation as a side-effect...I just don't know how one would separate that in studies.
Idk so much is corrupt, but I think the misinformation from well-intentioned but deluded or gullible idiots kills just as many or more. It's sad.
There is a simple reason for that: many people with depression are very lethargic, need lots of sleep etc.
The medication helps them in many ways, for example getting more active. Some are then able to follow their desire to commit suicide. It's about increased drive
I said some not all, while most of them are pretty effective or not, a select few cause bad reactions in some people
And honestly the best anti depressant (for me) is weed and pretty much any psychedelic drug
Clint Parsons your welcome ! I have taken both the brand name and generics and it’s all the same. I had to read up why this was happening. I recommend sticking with the venlafaxine it’s much cheaper and has less withdrawal effects.
pristiq is the active metabolite of valenfaxine which means that it leaves your body much quicker even its in xr form. because desvenlafaxine (pristiq) goes through almost no metabolism it exits the bloodstream quicker so when you miss a dose you actually have no more drugs in you. venlaxafine on the other hand does go through extensive metabolism so it enters your body more slowly and its many metabolites exit it slowly as well.
i have tried like 7 anti depressants which did not work at all, so for a while i was done with anti depressants feeling like shit everyday because of my violent dad in my younger years and because i was someone who used to stutter a lot. my dad and my mother divorced so i was happy i wont be seeing that coward anymore and after an intense training of 1 year my stammering has gone from not being able to say my own name to pretty much being able to speak like normal people but i still felt depressed. then my psychiatrist suggested me sertraline. i was very skeptic because i already tried 7 other meds before without much succes but my god sertraline just made me who i used to at the age of 9, you know when you had 0 worries, you did not need money, just a few friends and a nice park to sit orwhatever and you laughed, had fun and smiled all the time, no worries to make yourself worried about. sertraline gave me back my life, and my happiness.
i am a person that has needed a lot of medical and mental aid, and luckily i live in the country with the best health care system in the world. i have been hospitalized 3 times because of suicide attempts, they even had to give me a small surgery the 2nd time but we did not pay a single cent for the medications, the psycchiatrist, our doctor and for me getting hospitalized a couple of times.
i dont want to talk shit about America, i like America but if we wouldt live in the states, my parents woudt have 2 choices: kick me out of the house or sell all our belongings and become homeless just to prevent me from kicking the bucket. not to mention the 1 year stuttering training cost us only 300 euros... for a whole yeat of training whichwithout the wonderful health care system we have here it woukd dkd=cost us
+Sean Payton *"because it absolutely FLOODS your brain with endorphins (namely noradrenaline),"* jesus christ you make no sense. Noradrenaline is what stimulants like meth and amphetamine increase, mainly dopamine and then second highest - noradrenaline. Opioids like heroin have absolutely NOTHING to do with noradrenaline, its a stimulatory neurochemical, what the fuck. The junkies take clonazepam together with heroin because it increases its downer/sedating effect even more, it's absolutely farthest thing from stimulant, please dont talk shit without verifying it.
By the way, the reason of euphoria from heroin, is because the downstream effect is EXTREMELY increased dopamine level. Stims like amphetamine get their euphoric and addicting effect from stimulating noradrenaline and dopamine(this one responsible for its pleasure).
Effexor ir SNRI, it blocks reuptake of noradrenaline and serotonin. The fact it does nothing to dopamine is why it is absolutely not euphoric, you don't know what euphoria is if you call effexor something akin to heroin, lol. Most people cant take the side effects of effexor, this is nothing like euphoria (Ecstasy/Opioids)
+anjee419 Can 100% confirm, do NOT take Effexor. It will make you feel like you are fucking Superman for a month. It will be the greatest cure to your depression you've ever taken, and give you unlimited energy. However, this is because it absolutely FLOODS your brain with endorphins (namely noradrenaline), and after the first month you will start to feel back to baseline, but after another month or two you will feel like a complete zombie, your nerves will feel totally shot, you won't be able to sleep, and you'll feel so miserable you might feel like you'd rather end it all than go through the absolute worst withdrawals of your life. I'm not exaggerating either. I took this drug for 3 months (at maximum dosage mind you so mileage may vary), and at the end of it I felt so hopeless I quit cold turkey. Biggest mistake of my life...
For two days straight I was couch-locked, unable to move, had what felt like a high fever and the flu, all the while having mini-seizures every second. At it's worst moments it was so intense I thought I was gonna die. Surprisingly enough, after the second day I still had a slight fever feeling and flu symptoms plus not being able to sleep very long, but I felt better being off the drug. I probably felt better because my brain was no longer being constantly flooded with an extreme amount of endorphins. If you did start the drug I wish you the best of luck. If you didn't, you've made a wise choice.
/V I G G E R talk shit, I encourage it. I'm American if that makes my opinion more valid, but I think we can all call out what we think sucks. Not from the place? Doesn't matter. It's an excuse used to discourage discussion (that's how it plays out, at least). It's especially weird to not call out other countries that make up the West. They are most definitely up for criticism. Any country or culture is game - just try and understand the history and see if it makes a culture seem ethical. Or explains why from another perspective. If it doesn't, then maybe it's a bad system. I'd say that's the case here. If you're not safe enough economically AND you have health care issues? Very easy for that downward spiral to come (if it wasn't already there in cement). And if you can maybe squeeze through and make it work? Cool, but also add all the stigma and Culture this system will lay upon you too. From the bone marrow. Will your own family and friends give up or disown you for either financial or moral reasons after (or even before) the first hospital trip? Plenty of reasons they should, according to what they know. And it happens. Great people here, terrible people too, and many great people ruined from their circumstances without having a clue.
/V I G G E R wow! That's great you have found a med that works. I hope it continues to for you. I have tried several,but I don't think I have tried that one. My Dr just switched me to Effexor,but I haven't started taking it because of all the negative shit I have read about it. Seems like it causes TERRIBLE withdraw symptoms,sometimes after only skipping one day,afte4nd for several it made them suicidal even though they never had been before. I do suffer from it. Damned if you do,damned if you dont.
In the US they have health providing facilities in accordance to capitalism just like anything else you could think of!Do you get bread for free?Do you get internet for free?Do you get Mercedes for free?If the answer is no, then why would anyone give you medical treatment for free?
But people in Europe tend to forget that their year long "all inclusive" health care costs €100(my country)!
I would love to see a video specifically focusing on Agomelatine! I'd assume higher acceptability is in some way correlated with higher drug safety, so if more people know about Agomelatine then more people can try that drug first and see if it works before switching to less tolerable but more effective (In relation to this study) drugs. Agomelatine seems to be the sweet spot, so more information would be much appreciated.
+Rexkicker yeah, that dopamine increase is from blockade of 5HT2C. This receptor is inhibitory on dopamine and norepinephrine, so blocking it - disinhibits the dopamine and noradrenaline. Fluoxetine(prozac) is a modest 5HT2C antagonist too, along its SSRI effect. The most potent one is mirtazapine, that's why it's in the tops here in these studies. It increases serotonin via its histamine strong blockade (not sure which receptor) along with blocking the 5HT2C, which focuses more on dopamine and noradenaline. Mirtazapine and bupropion is a great combo to get serotonin, noradrenaline and dopamine stimulation. Mirtzapine + fluoxetine or agomelatine is a modest boost for dopamine too, along with the former neurochemicals
That placebo thing is weird considering the compound should make you less anxious...pff.. The new avenues are coming, just the industry is 10 years behind itself and probably 20-30 years behind from the actual scientific discovery of neurogenesis and such..
Until then, the only relatively safe affordable and effective antidepessants are: Tianeptine (treating psychological pain), St. Johns Wort (the everything reuptake inhibitor) and MAOIs (for the really rekt# and adventurous). Something like escitalo or mirtazapine are relatively benign but they treat more anxiety than depression.
@ddg227 Ah ballsack, I thought they finally got it right this time, but the naphthalene bond angles DO cause issues in the human body as I initially suspected but I guess didn't want to believe. Everybody deserves to get medicine that doesn't mess up their bodies, I guess entirely new mechanisms of action need to arise. Either way, a video should be made on Agomelatine even just to warn people about possible liver-related issues.
P.S. I just learned something strange reading studies on Agomelatine-related liver injury: When patients are given a placebo and told it could damage their liver, a portion of people actually display liver damage because of the perceived threat. Odd. Very odd. I guess placebos go both ways. That just goes to show that positive thinking may be able to keep you physically healthier.
I use cannabis daily but I struggle with severe depression with or without it. It's hard to stop but some ppl it seems don't realize when you use concentrated forms of it heavily it can cause negative side effects or at least has for me. Could you do a video about the relationship between cannabis and depression highlighting both negative and positive side effects? I know high doses of thc daily really crush my depression and anxiety but I haven't been able to stop long enough to know if it really will help mentally. It helps every physical symptom of depression for me for sure
+Kemry heroin is a downer too, as is ketamine and dxm. You don't understand what the term "depressant" means. Opioids are the very definition of "narcotic" ie - depressant, because it makes you THAT numb to the world.. and that's just what opioid agonists do.
Weed is a downer, it brings your mood down. Confusion in the happiness it can bring, mental fog and most likely anxiety will be experienced with some who has depression. No substance is going to work in the long haul. A healthy lifestyle, so being active and eating healthy will increase the chance of always having a good cannabis experience but remember it lowers your vibe and brings you down. It’s a good substance but I don’t think you should rely on for your mood. Only to enhance certain events or even to enhance your perspective. Meditation is the most effective and sustainable way to have emotional stability.
What are your daily activities, routine? How do generally think about yourself, the world, your life etc? I found depression subsided after being depressed on and off for 6 years by living realizing that what was happening to me was also what I was doing
I would slowly taper off the cannabis and with time, cease its use completely. I feel that with regular use it feels like it's helping but in reality it's not. Of course, others will disagree with me but from what I've seen (anecdotal) it can actually worsen the depressive state. Go chat with your doctor and perhaps a mental health professional. If medications aren't your thing, consider a psychologist instead?
Thank you for this info in an understandable way! Escitalopram has been very effective in me and some family members, but it's important to find what works for your body chemistry. One wish I had for drug research is long-term antidepressant use and the effect that these medications have on female libido. Terry Gross "Fresh Air" did a GREAT piece on psychoactive chemicals and women in particular, if anyone else is interested in that topic!
I meant on Angelina Jolly actually but I understand you about Brad Pitt, in Troy he used to jump around in pants while waving with a rubber sword, so who could be aroused?
Til Schweiger is a German actor who also played in US movies but I forgot that could be a bit old being ~55.
Ok all joke aside, I am on Paxil for years and have tried almost every med under the sun so I could help you with your issues if you tell me what were/are you taking!
dboy6400 I was in citalopram,then welbutrin, then Zoloft. Now aim not 5aking anything.amy Dr prescribed me EFfexor this past week but I don't want to start it because I read a lot of terrible reviews about withdraw symptoms even after only missing one day,and also increased suicidal thoughts..
Damned if you do..damned if you dont. My life has gone to complete hell...
Milan Matovic not sure of the botch you are referring to...Brad Pitt is single. And I have no idea who the German guy is you mentioned,but it doesn't matter. I can promise ya,he wouldn't "turn me on"...I'm completely numb to any sexual arousal.
anjee what are you taking? Is your libido reduction the only sexual side effect hitting you? For me it included the ability to orgasm even with very high tension, like climbing a tall ladder but never getting to the top. I only took an SSRI for a very short time and now have mirtazapine, no sex impact.
mertazipine has been actually working for me compared to all the ssris the doctor put me through must have been ovewr 10 different antidepressants and Mertazipine actually works and works faster than ssris
Oh great ressource! We still need to remember that even if a drug is effective on many people, another drug might be better for another. So lets hope that even with this knowledge doesn't come a disregard of drugs deemed as not as effective by patients or doctors.
I hate that the study was funded by the pharma industry. Ugh.
I have been on over ten ad over my life span and the very best for me were sertraline and amitryptiline.
The WORST!!! was duloxetine. I'd urge anyone to research witdrawal, befor considering using it. It was awful.
Thank you for the video!
Is there any studies proving a chemical imbalance in the brain? They never checked my brain chemical before putting me on prozac and I have to take this drug every day but it don't feel like it do anything for me
Yup. Forget all the bullshit - does a drug help your symptoms without being out-shined by negative side-effects? If so, then it sounds good as hell to me. What is depression? Do we know? I mean do we REALLY know? And does it include a spectrum? I'd imagine so since - why would the brain work in black-and-white? It doesn't matter, but the whole world is a grey area too.
I'd love to advance into a future where we can pinpoint and define all these things and the solutions. That maybe requires science to speed-up (voting for more money to that and less to the military is probably the best bet if American), a time-machine, or it may never ever happen. Treating symptoms is a good goal and a more measurable one. Everything else is too abstract. I think there'd be less mental illness if society was completely restructured. That could happen, but it's far-fetched for our lifespans and I'm not very optimistic about that extreme degree of reform coming.
Since this is all so complex: if you eat a pill and you feel better and stay better? Mission accomplished, or at least partially. That's amazing, better than what most people can achieve, and all that is even possible. Better to not expend energy on this unless you're literally researching and trying solve this.
It's very interesting that the link the poster left me says in the first sentence that serotonin remains unresolved despite decades of research.
It appears that the poster wants to perpetuate completely false information. Not just him but doctors as well.
When he said he had a link I was glib with anticipation. Then I read it and it was a another dud.
It's ironic how many folks I know speak of chemical imbalance but when questioned about it all they can do is repeat fallacies that they've heard...
Connie: No, that is an under-supported theory that is pushed and benefits Pharmaceutical Companies and Doctors in order to easily explain, prescribe and rationalise their indefinite use. Cannot directly measure (in Vivo) in humans brain levels of neurotransmitters, only indirectly through various fluids. There are no studies proving a chemical imbalance.
The issue I have with anti-depressants is that they are often used not in conjunction, but as a cheaper alternative to talk therapy and other less insidious, and often times, more effective methods of treatment. There is little evidence of direct biological causes of depression in the majority of cases and the life issues which are likely the actual causes of depression in these cases are too often overlooked by those who simply wish to make a living prescribing drugs and don't have the resources to help in other ways. It's a systemic problem with current mental health care treatment that will hopefully be improved in the future.
My nephew died from Paxil withdrawals as have many others. These SSRI's are no joke and it's irresponsible to post videos about them that aren't performed by independent 3rd parties. An obvious conflict of interest.
Synthetic drugs to change the neuro chemistry should only be used in severe cases where an patient has serious biological issues.
People should stop confusing an sad and unsatisfactory life with an neurological illness.
Yes I agree. It is just important to acknowledge the biological/life issue distinction, with regards to the causes of depression, so that the actual root causes of people's suffering is being accurately addressed and not just the symptoms.
Even if someone's depression stems from a life issue, it's manifesting itself through biological means. All of these states are ultimately being experienced via biology (the brain) and there's an interplay between someone's psychological state and how their brain is functioning on a neurochemical/neurobiological level. I agree, of course, that non-drug therapy would be a superior option in many, many cases.
Thank you very much for this video! It came at good time for me because I have previously been on effexor, paxil, and Zoloft. I found both of those to be ineffective and provided me with more downsides than up. Since, I've been in a state of not knowing what I should I do alongside therapy because one on their own seems to also be ineffective for myself. This video showed options my doctor hasn't even brought up yet which may be worth mentioning next time I see here. Keep up the great content!
Well From my understanding the cause of depression is generally a mystery, it may not even be a chemical imbalance in some. So drugs like Prozac work more like a band aid by increasing serotonin and thus mood while most likely not actually treating the root of the depression.
One of the biggest issues with this class of drugs is that they are supposed to be taken indefinitely. Instead of helping you through a rough patch they want to hook you on a dangerous drug for life. This is the oldest drug dealer trick in the world!
Bayer purchased Monsanto!
Monsanto has created so many health problems from Agent Orange to all the genetically modified foods and now they are owned by big pharm??
Is this a bad science fiction dream or reality??
Do we really want a drug manufacture owning parts of our food supply??? Contemplate on this...
Maybe some of the farmers that lived through Monsanto stealing their farm for not acquiescing to purchasing their GMO seeds can go get some anti depressants from Bayer and take them for the rest of their lives...
Because if you have depression it is not natural. So we need synthetic drugs for the rest of our lives to help us...
These corporations are legally insane and should be incarcerated for the madness they are unleashing on unsuspecting people...
He's right. Read my response at the bottom. I am a consumer of anti-depressants, but that doesn't mean I agree with their use and/or need. It's simply the lesser of two evils for me because too many doctors were given free access to my brain from the time I was a toddler and in complete honesty, they fucked me up.
I could give you factual information about anti-depressants that would make you vomit.
They actually use lithium as part of their chemtrail mixtures that they're spraying on everybody. Here in Northern Ontario, there's so many people suffering from "chemtrail cough" that the ER's can't even keep up with it, and the doctors refuse to believe that chemtrails can do this. They all contain aluminum dust, berylium, fluorine, strontium, chromium, and all sorts of lung-clogging crap.
Conspiracy "theory"? There isn't any theory involved...it's FACT.
If you buy better seeds from a company of course you should have to pay them. If farmers didn't think it was worth it to pay for Monsanto's products they wouldn't sign up for their contracts. I don't see what's wrong with a business charging for its products. If you break a contract that you sign why shouldn't you get sued?
+The Heavyassaulter *"Abusing it is your own fault, not the herb's fault.
"* - Telling that to a morphine addict - hey, poppy is just a plant, it's not the herbs plant you smoke/iv it.
it doesnt HAVE to be processed to be used, it is needed to make morphine into heroin tho, which is more profitable, but morphine is just as addictive and poppy seed tea is pretty fucking potent. my point is - its natural is just a bullshit argument because weed is not the only natural drug that is used.
Exactly. On it's own St. Johns not dangerous only when combined with certain synthetic drugs. So the logical conclusion being that the synthetic drug is providing the danger and not St Johns wart as it is safe on its own.
Satoshi Nakamoto St John's wort is structually similar to serotonin, it binds to those receptors causing an uplift in mood. It's not good to take st. John's wort if your on SSRI s from my research. But it's definitely safe for the most part, especially if you're not on medications.
Interesting. I was just doing research what differences SSRIs have. I've always felt like tricyclics are still better because of their broader mechanisms of action, like sodium and calcium channel blocking and 5-HT2a antagonism. They are far more sedating than SSRIs which is useful in anxiety disorders.
Antidepressants are medications that can help relieve symptoms of depression, social anxiety disorder, anxiety disorders, seasonal affective disorder, and dysthymia, or mild chronic depression, as well as other conditions.
They aim to correct chemical imbalances of neurotransmitters in the brain that are believed to be responsible for changes in mood and behavior.
Depression Medications (Antidepressants)
These are the most commonly prescribed type of antidepressant.
Serotonin and noradrenaline reuptake inhibitors (SNRIs) are used to treat major depression, mood disorders, and possibly but less commonly attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), anxiety disorders, menopausal symptoms, fibromyalgia, and chronic neuropathic pain.
SNRIs raise levels of serotonin and norepinephrine, two neurotransmitters in the brain that play a key role in stabilizing mood.
Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) are the most commonly prescribed antidepressants. They are effective in treating depression, and they have fewer side effects than the other antidepressants.
SSRIs block the reuptake, or absorption, of serotonin in the brain. This makes it easier for the brain cells to receive and send messages, resulting in better and more stable moods.
They are called "selective" because they mainly seem to affect serotonin, and not the other neurotransmitters.