Breakdown of Why we don't have free will & Why that's Okay.
I started doing research on this a few weeks back, when I came across Sam Harris 's book on Free Will while working on a video on meditation. There were several ways I could have explained this, but I was trying to avoid recycling commonly used examples, so this could have ended up even longer. I'm hoping this promotes self-awareness rather than just inducing existential crisises.
■Predictably Irrational by Dan Ariely: http://amzn.to/2kj4Qft
■Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman: http://amzn.to/2jIVDwP
■Free Will by Sam Harris: http://amzn.to/2jEB1Ca
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I'd say that we do have free will, though to some extent it is not innate. We can't control initial thoughts which are predicated on emotion, initial thought patterns, and Instincts but we can focus on the thoughts and patterns to evaluate and extrapolate them. We can think about the facts of the matter and the possible contradictions while being mindful of our emotions, initial thought patterns, and Instincts. So while you can't chose initial thoughts you can build off of them to form a webbed pattern of sorts of possibilities and choices. So in a lot of ways you can say that our level of free will is a skill that must be built and that without being aware of these things it is possible to trap ourselves in neural pathways of circular logic that without external stimulation we will never escape.
it takes 20mins for us to know were full but we carry on eating until we know were full, we are determined to be full 20mins before we know. And to have free will you have to be aware of things. if were not aware of that weres our free will
My behavior can influence your “free” will by gradually change the way your mind works, same goes for you. So, we may not be in the best position to control our own free will, but others may be. So, if you find yourself helpless to change a certain aspect of your life maybe the best shot is to find the right environment with the right people so that everything can happen “naturally”. Why do you think kids of the rich are usually overall more capable? It happened naturally, as a result of the environment they are in. So we are not lost and hopeless, even if we can’t directly control anything in the moment. We can still to an extent choose to put ourselves in the right environment so that the change takes place in time.
I like this channel, well thought out and researched. However you cannot argue against free will without assuming free will exists. To argue against free will assumes the other person has the ability to choose to accept your argument.
A human can will anything - With the Truman example, his fear was his will to leave. He didn't know he would feel so strongly toward this, but he could've stayed if he had willed himself to. I'd say that's free will...
Willis for me, I’m inclined to respond to you because I want to prove or at least make clear to you my viewpoint. I’m actually quite glad neither one of us is severely angry at each other and are using logic. The want that I have is grounded in logic, and I want to prove my point - because I enjoy it. However, by acting on these desires I’m using will. If I were not to act on these desires I would also be using will. Even though I want to, I would stop myself to prove a point. But I’ve decided it’s in my best interest to explain it to you. I’ve used my thoughts to willingly type this out. I’m just as free not to tell you this. I don’t need to, there’s no reason to. So I don’t will myself to. I’m also typing this on my phone, logically it makes the most sense, since there’s no real reason that I can think of to put in extra effort to turn on my computer etc. to reply to this comment, but I could’ve had I logically found a reason to. Though these decisions are subconscious, I am acting on my want to do them and am still free not to act on them. This being free will. Want, in my experience, is based upon logic. Another example, I don’t like peas. I have no want for peas. I could will myself to eat them, but logically there’s no reason to. The argument in the video is that I can’t change likes/dislikes, but I can will myself to ignore these. But there’s no logical reason that I am able to think of now that makes me think I’d want to. I have a choice to ignore or obey my past experiences influence which is what causes me to want, like, dislike, or have a physical reaction. My choice one might argue is based in want, but it’s more based on logic. I would will myself not to throw up in front of my friends and instead hold it in until I reached the bathroom, despite how uncomfortable that might be for me or how much my body would rather just spit it out. Idk man, I can see both sides...
Frankie Adams but the only reason you would will yourself to not be affected by fear or sadness, is only because you want to, you have the desire, think about it, what was the last action you undertook simply for the sake of it? Simply because you could.
Let’s say you have two options A and B, you know you prefer A, so you pick it.
Alternatively, you decide to prove you have free will by choosing B in spite of your preference for A, but even in this case, the same issue applies, you had the want, the desire to prove free will exists, and that uncontrollable want influenced your decision to choose B
Willis I’d argue want isn’t will. Will is a separate thing, as you don’t have to act in accordance to your want - you can, using will, change the outcome. Free will being decisions. Obviously emotions aren’t under your own will. You can’t decide to stop being sad or scared. But you can will yourself not to act on them, for example. I’d argue will is only within what you can actually control. Of course, I can understand why one might argue that because emotion isn’t under your own control means you don’t have free will, but I don’t think emotion counts under that.
I disagree with the physiology argument. An anxiety medication to slow the heart beat does not stop the mental anxiety, so your fears etc so are still present therefore, you can still have the fear even though your heart is at a slower pace.
Since "What I've Learned" does not possess freewill (as freely confessed by him/her) then I'd like to know why I should not be scared for my life - if I ever make the unfortunate decision to drive my car on the motorway - at the same time that "What I've Learned" decides to drive.
I'm extremely dubious of the pedophile guy who attributed it to a brain tumor. Of course he's going to claim the urges 'went away', as that would make him less accountable for his actions. Secondly, even if he did have urges due to that, that doesn't mean he has to act on them. The criminal offence is not having the urges, proclivity or attraction but rather actually acting it out and abusing children. However, he is the only one who could know if his urges stopped or not and I suspect he'd claim it was down to the tumor either way, as a way to get less jail time or get out earlier. And as a way to save face with family and friends and anyone associated with him who he'd be embarrassed about knowing what he was. Sexual desire for children seems too much of a random side effect and too innate to be caused by a brain tumor. That's my opinion.
Quantum physics has shown that the entire universe follows the laws of the universe. Nothing in the universe happens by chance. There are options, but there is no choice. Everyone chooses what the causality of the universe makes them choose. Your thoughts are not your own, but are just the electro-chemical patterns in your brain. The exact electro-chemical patterns demanded by the unyielding causal flow of the universe. (So much for being a free thinker). So be happy, it isn’t your fault, and there is nothing you can do. So, if you are unfortunate, and a man breaks into your house, ties you up, and forces you to watch as he rapes your child, you can be glad to know that he is not evil. It is just the universe playing itself out.
I mean, if you want to believe in free will, you would have to be crazy and believe in the spirit. We know that is foolish.
Hey, thanks man, I like all your videos, but this one especially I loved. Maybe "just" because it makes sense to the way I look at the world and myself, But it is truly liberating to stop blaming the person and start looking at the reasons and experiences that shape our mind. That's why I also like to think of our mind as an operating system, with different software running in the background, and start to think where we got these programs from.
I saw soap. Why? Soaps are often white bars. Covering the letter with a white bar was a much stronger influence than the dinner scene. Maybe if it was a blank space with an underline, the priming would have worked. But we'll never know...
Now get the hell out of my sidebar.
13:05 Where's the rest of the sentence?
Y'know. The part where he says,
"...so why do we believe that people are 'choosing' to be happy or successful or healthy or strong or anything else we consider normal? And why do we blame them when they are not any of those things?"
Well, just because we have certain natural instincts does not mean we do not have free will. Even though certain factors may influence our thoughts and decisions that does not mean we are predetermined robots. I think people are just complicating this idea of "free will". I think we truly won't ever be able to properly define 'Free will'.
Bob Fridge free will is simply the ability to make our own decisions, but when every decision is determined by an external influence that we cannot control, it it really us that’s making those decisions
Well the thing is matter itself, the atoms that make up our bodies don’t really exist in that absolution. They exist on waves of probability, the math and physics that prove this is the only way we have transistors and computers as small as the one in my hand now. That chance that the most unlikely scenario could happen, will happen in this reality or the next. Therefore even our thoughts emerge from this, just as the life did on our planet from nothingness. There are billions of cells in the tool that grants you thought, each with their own atoms. And as the move through space time they collapse into one and we can measure that probability. Some speculate that the differences that don’t manifest themselves in our world manifest themselves in others this is also know as the (Many Worlds Theory). We can have freedom of will. It’s just not as easy to maintain as most people think.
I think you just need to define your terms clearly and youll see that if by "free will" you mean the ability to chose between options presented then we absolutely have that. In a similar yet meaningfully different example than the sitting one you provided i can choose to hold my arm aloft. I cannot chose to keep it there indefinitely because of the way my body functions but within the time that I can keep my arm aloft I could choose at ANY moment to relax the muscles in my shoulders and allow my arm to rest back at my side. It could be 1 second after my arm is aloft, 2 seconds, 2.05 and I would be the only one to decide that. We have a nearly uncountable number of options to chose from at any given moment and we chose from them constantly. Im chosing to articulate my fingers in such a way to produce english in this comment for instance because i think it might have some positive effect on the world in the future (people seeing the world as clearly as possible). To argue against this would be to argue that i in fact dont chose when to lower my arm when it is aloft. And while that could be logically possible the other things that would be neccesarily true in a world where that were true i dont think youd be willing to get on board with. For instance, if i dont chose to lower my arm it would be hypocritical for you to be angry if i punched you in the face. What? my body just does what it does. What are you mad at electrons in my brain for giving instructions to my muscles? Or would you be mad at me? the one who controls my arm? So to top it off its not even really important whether or not "free will" exists literally because you cant believe it doesnt and act as though thats true whilst remaining logically consistent. And if you cant than the belief is meaningless
You say: We don't have Free Will
Response: Did you: A. Freely come to this conclusion. Or: B. Where you determined to believe it..? If A -- free will is true. If B -- Determinism is true.
In other words: If determinism is true rational evaluation is an illusion and has no causal powers. Why? Because rational activity presupposes free will. For rationality is possible only where one has a choice among various rational as well as irrational options. On determinism the brain is forced by chemistry and physics (universal causation) to hold a belief whether it is true or not. Hence on determinism we have no rational justification for our beliefs.
As a determinist/compatibilist we cannot logically argue against the existence of free will using rationality --- but this is what many do. Right..? If we would like to be logically consistent we would have to say: "Perhaps free will does not exist. I don't know." This is what most determinists refuse to realize.
Conclusion: On determinism a choice is an illusion of choice. 1. A human being is like a rock bouncing down a hill. 2. The rock: Hmmm... should I go left or right... 3. Universal causation makes the rock go left. 4. The rock: I choose to go left.
Do only thing I dont like about this whole is that it claims people cant correct themselves "in the moment" . If the theory is true that means that the correction in the moment is as predetermined as the action committed in the moment and if so does this mean we unconsciously sequence a mistake into the predetermined action. That goes against the standard rule of biology of making things easier and as practical as possible as we interfere the predetermined action with an incorrect one. Why would we have this as a biological trait that persist till this day? I believe most of our thoughts are determined but some are decided at random based upon literal milliseconds before the predetermined action is ran .
Chris Dryer they are uncontrollable in the sense that you can never isolate them from your decision making, you cannot choose to not desire or want something, if you desire something then you simply desire it, even an attempt to change your desire requires a desire to change yourself for the better, once again, something out of your control
+Willis you can control your desires. you can also make them worse by indulging in them, so there is where we disagree. You can change your desires over time. People can change. I see it in my life, and I hope you see it in yourself. Whether it is from free will or not... doesn't matter. Sounds like a game.
Chris Dryer I’m not sure how it is word games, wants and desires always influence decisions, wants and desires are uncontrollable, therefore decisions are based on that which we have no control over, interpret that as you will
The fact our thoughts come "from the void" doesn't really mean we don't controll them. Think about this: How do you remember? What process do you engage in to recall a specific information? You just focus your mind and wait for it to come. "From the void" as you called it. There is no "place" to go to for memories from January and no specific place in your head where 2009 memories are stored. There is no filing system. At least not verbal one. We do controll our thoughts and memories. But that part of us doesn't make decisions in any language, it's on more basic level.
I disagree that you can't change or control your thoughts. Just as seeing the diner conditions you to see the word SOUP you can recondition your mind.
It takes determination and consistency, but it certainly can be done. Can you eradicate EVERY spare thought? I don't know, i'm not sure why you would want to. But I know you can have way more control than this video tries to say. It's a matter of remembering to call yourself in. Whether it's reminding yourself to be kind to yourself when you have a negative self thought, or reminding yourself to think firmly beyond the bias of a negative thought about another. With practice, you can recondition your mind.
Well, it depends what we mean by control.... you might not have control and feelings, emotions and desires, but your conscious self decides what action to take, your actions might be limited but you still choose... it’s like a bird in an aviary. It can choose to fly, but not fly away...
I love this channel, but this particular video is just a bunch of assertions. The conclusion do not follow. The fact that we have some automatic responses does not prove or disprove free will. I would even say that conclusions at the end assert a choice. We can work on changing our circumstances not to invoke undesirable chains of events.
I think the universe may just be a pure mathematical function, which was given a predefined set of parameters like the amount of matter, gravity, forces etc. and thus it has a predetermined outcome. This function seemed to have started with the "big bang".
On different levels of abstraction, we both do and don't have free will.
On the level of abstraction of our day-to-day life, we do have some kind of free will because we make conscious choices. Humans brains operate on these very high levels of abstraction because operating on lower abstraction levels is too complex for our brains to handle.
But on the level of actual building blocks of this universe - we're just a program, executing our genome code based on parameters predetermined during the creation of the universe.
In the end - consciousness and free will may be just an illusion. We humans may be just a very little, tiny sub-program of the universe-function and our minds are just the result of very complex calculations, but they still obey the rules of the main program (the universe) thus their result is predetermined and thus there's no actual free will.
Or... it may also not. We, humans, tend to assume that everything's calculable because that's how we discover and measure the world we live in. The universe may also not be a pure function, it might be something our brains can't even imagine.
Michael Brook they “chose” because to write an article because they wanted to, they had the desire, literally every decision you make is because your mind has a desire to do so, our wants are something we have no control over, every choice comes from that which we have can’t control, an outside influence
We do have free will to some degree. Of course our chemicals can influence our choices but humans can still do suicide which is actually a very unique choice which goes against all of our natural instincts
Pepe but suicide or any action really is taken because we want to take that action, and our wants are not in our control, that’s due to our biology, our subconscious etc, so if our wants are responsible for every action we ever took, how can we reasonably say it was ourselves making those decisions
Your heaving bulk of evidence also indicates an alternative explanation. The evidence does not allow for a material apeal to contiousness. Either The void determines your waking contious moods that u merely passively observe and/or veto or your imaterial soul is vindicated in triumph of ochams razor and spirit and the sacral reamerge as a contendor perspective with concrete explanatory power.
What u have done here by asking us to pear into your pandoras box is like stunning an animal you just wounded and then throwing him down a bottomless hole.
Its not just gonna do that as u say...u just want us to be aware. Sorry sir that was a tautology. Those arent snake eyes, their rat droppings.
I got a gun, I shoot someone, did I have free will to shoot that person?
You have free will but you still have cause and effect.
If you got a will you got a way.
Got a boat? Hole in the boat? Fix the hole.
Just because something blocks the path to the road does not mean that you do not have the free will to choose to go over it or around it.
You have free will but you also have certain problems that can cause you to fall into a state of unavoidable situations.
This has probably been said, but, this video is NOT about the existence of free will, but rather, about it's limits... ("sigh*)
There IS NO SUCH THING as free will- in ANY and EVERY scientific experiment and/or philisophic argument, it's existence is an unnecessary, atavistic, often religious, and, yes, even an hubristic complication-
There is no reasonable reason to suppose that free will exists- other than the idea that it feels like it does! (And, please, oh please, don't say 'quantum'!).
+BBB H i guess free will really doesn't exist if even the randomness has been pre-predicted. even the most randomness thoughts have a route cause and therefore are hypothetically predictable.
take a computer for example- it gives you a complete arbitrary number. a human would have never been able to predict this... as thats the definition of randomness right?... "unpredictable". but if you tracked the programming and coding that went into it there is a way to predict it. however, this is far to complicated and impossible for a human to do. though my point is that we may be the same. its just that being able to track the cause all the way back to start of the universe would be impossible in a similar respect.
so free will doesnt exist. even in countries that claim to have 'freedom' are restricted by rules and regulations. perhaps its just the idea and ability to move around freely in our small little bubble that counts as free will. we are tied down by our unconscious factors... but if we are conscious of them, wouldn't that mean we'd have more of this 'free will' idea. we'd have more wiggle room in our small diddy bubble.
buuut your probably right anyways! there's be no use arguing about this. its hard coming to a conclusion. so if anything, i'd consider this back-and-forth a discussion.
Sure, maybe believing in free will is better (more advantageous) than accepting that free will does not exist...
I just don't see any possible mechanism in a deterministic (or random) universe wherin free will could possibly exist.
Again- the absence of free will does not imply that choice and responsibility (and conciousness) also do not exist.... (A virus is responsible for whatever sickness it causes, and a computer program makes choices based on the input it receives). Also, tangentally, free will is not a necessary condition for conciousness.
The arguments for and against free will eventually become circular and therefore not worth considering. So why should we believe in something (free will) that is, at it's core, an unnecessary complication? Answer: we shouldn't.
I have watched and read a lot on this topic over the past few decades. This is a very well done short expose that resumes the whole question, although a lot more science could be added... if the video lasted for about 40 hours.
Personally, I feel like I influence myself deliberately based on what I see others do. I don't generally know how to act in public situations and I tend to emulate others consciously, so I wonder where I stand in this whole unconscious free will thing since I'm consciously copying others
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